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PLP – 129 Jill Underwood On How Various Market Cycles Of The Past Shaped Today’s Real Estate

PLP 129 | Market Cycles

PLP 129 | Market Cycles


Looking back at history is always a great way to discern how we got into the present. Joining Keith Baker to reflect on the previous market cycles of real estate is Jill Underwood. Together, they discuss the implications of the different crises and crashes the country has faced. Jill explains how the platforms of US Presidents directly affect the growth – or decline – of the real estate market. She details how the nation’s debt plays a role in keeping rates low, which is pretty clear with today’s pandemic-hit society. The two also discuss the new tax credit policy rolled out by the Federal Reserve System and the right approach to these free money situations.

Jill Underwood On How Various Market Cycles Of The Past Shaped Today’s Real Estate

Jill Underwood Discusses The Current Market Conditions And Compares Them To Previous Cycles

I’d like to thank you for sharing your time with me. If you’re looking for practical tips and advice on private lending and how to keep your money safe, then you are in the right place. If you want to learn from my mistakes so that you can both avoid them and profit from them, pull up a chair and pour yourself a drink, get a notepad and a pencil, take some notes because this show is for you. I’m dedicated to giving people like you and me the knowledge and confidence for successful and profitable private lending. If you’re looking to join a community of private lenders, then head over to the show’s Facebook group to connect with other private lenders, to share experiences, stories, and opinions that are not political, sexual, or religious. Simply go to Facebook groups and search Private Lender Podcast Group.

I hope everyone is doing well since summer has officially begun. We are into the month of June 2021, the back end of the second quarter. There’s a lot of fun stuff coming out. The Private Lender Academy is going to launch in July 2021. Stay tuned to for more information on that. I’m looking forward July 6th, 2021, July 7th, 2021 launch date. Go to to go ahead and get on the list for your chance to get some goodies like discounts or pop-up Facebook coaching calls. You will be able to participate via Facebook. You’ll have to come in through Zoom. Get on the list for those early-bird discounts and goodies.

Before we get to the brass tacks of this episode, I wanted to say that I have not had a retail mortgage loan officer on the show yet on purpose. One has been on my list but I wanted someone that could bring a little more. It’s not that I haven’t been approached. I have several friends that are loan officers but unfortunately, I didn’t feel that anyone clicked or stood out as someone who could provide something different and unique to the audience here. This episode’s guest is different because I sought her out, asked her to come on this episode, and share her experience with us for two reasons.

One is her driven spirit and can-do attitude. She’ll find a way. She’ll figure it out. No problem is too big. I liked that. Also, her experience. She has so much experience with several market cycles. Our guest has been in the mortgage industry since she was 21 years old. She began as a receptionist, quickly rose through the ranks and became a loan officer. She’s been through and survived the savings and loan crisis that started in 1986 and went into the 1990s, the dot-com bubble of 2000, and the Great Recession or global financial crisis of 2008. She didn’t just survive these. She thrived through them. Let’s get to the heart of the matter and to the interview with Jill Underwood.

Please help me welcome Ms. Jill Underwood to the show. Jill, welcome.

Thank you. I’m so happy to be here.

I’m excited. There are so many reasons that I wanted you on the show. Let’s tell the audience exactly the biggest of the reasons. You are a loan originator, a loan officer. Tell us about what you do for your clients.

The more that the country stays in debt, the lower the real estate rates will be. Click To Tweet

My tagline is that I help people make great decisions about their home financing. There have been many years in my industry where people didn’t make great decisions but I’m still here making you and helping you to do the right thing.

You should never ask a woman how old she is but you’ve been doing this for a while. You’re still here. You’ve seen some market cycles. You go back out. Your mom was a realtor, correct?

Yeah. I got into the mortgage business in 1981. I’ve seen a lot. I’ve seen many recessions. I’ve seen some very serious market changes as well and I’m still here. My mother was a real estate agent when I was growing up. I have a lot of older brothers and sisters. By the time I became a teenager, being a sponge of information, they were mostly gone. I got mom all to myself. I would seriously follow her around and hang out at the real estate office. She taught me how to talk to people. She taught me about negotiating and how to keep everybody happy with negotiations. She taught me about things like equity. A 13 or 14-year-olds shouldn’t know what equity means but I did. I was twenty years old and broke as hell. She was a top producer with Century 21 at the time. There was a big Century 21 convention in Vegas, their top producer convention. At the last minute, my dad didn’t want to go so she took me. I got my first taste of a real estate convention when I was twenty years old in Las Vegas. It was awesome.

That’s got to be quite the experience.

It was pretty cool.

That was your first seminar/conference.

It was my very first type of seminar or conference. My mom and I were really tight. We at one point thought that we wanted to open a real estate office together. I went to college. I have a degree in real estate. I am still degreed in my industry but it never materialized for us to open our own office together. What happened is when I took the real estate finance class in my college courses, it has clicked with me. It was like, “That’s it.” The law class, forget it. I didn’t understand a word that man was saying. The real estate finance clicked with me because she was already teaching me how to talk to people and the math was a breeze.

PLP 129 | Market Cycles

Market Cycles: Back then, everybody got a loan. There were a lot of stupid loans back then too, because that’s when it all started with the stated income loans.


There’s a lot of math involved, a lot of algebraic equations that I do. I ended up in the mortgage business. I started as a receptionist at Fort Worth Mortgage in Richardson, Texas. I went to assistant to the processors, processor, senior processor, assistant to the loan officer, and then loan officer. I’ve stayed on the front lines because I do enjoy being on the front line helping people. Now, I negotiate with underwriting. That’s what we do. It’s a big deal. That’s a little bit about my history, my background, and how I got to where I am years later.

Congratulations. You don’t get this far at that age without doing something right. In your story, you’ve seen so much. There’s so much continuity in years in your head of the real estate and mortgage market, whereas most folks that I talked to get in and out at some point. They will talk to you about ’08 all they want but they’re not going to talk to you about the S&L crisis back in the ’80s because they weren’t there. They weren’t around when the dot-com boom broke or whatever correction drop. I haven’t had a loan officer on this show for a reason. This is private lending and not retail. For most of my loans, I don’t go through RMLO. I don’t have to. It’s not a retail loan. It’s not subject to Dodd-Frank. It’s a business loan from one investor to another. There’s a difference there but at the same time, I want to avoid the confusion between the loans.

Jill Underwood helps people make great decisions about their home financing. Click To Tweet

What does the real estate market follow? It’s the retail market. Buyers and sellers, all that, it’s all rolled into one. I got to the point where I’m like, “I’m doing a disservice by not having loan officers on,” speaking about the retail side because we follow it and then right out of the gate, 40 years. Can you put this wire in your head and download it onto this old hard drive right here? The ’08, ’09 was caused by the mortgage. A lot of people making stupid loans, collateralizing them, selling them off, and then buying insurance products that didn’t even credit default swaps. That’s the technical. We’ve been through that. Let’s go back to around 2000, the dot-com. Everyone was becoming a millionaire. It sounds familiar. Take us back there. Do you see any differences and similarities between 2020 and 2000, for example? We’ve got two decades in between.

Back then, everybody got a loan. There were a lot of stupid loans back then too because that’s when it all started with all the stated income loans. We did a lot of those with people who probably didn’t qualify. There have been so many times in this industry where things just ebb and flow. A lot of it has to do with where rates are. A lot of it has to do with who’s president at the time. Some presidents will come out and their platform is, “Everybody gets a home loan. Everybody gets the American dream.” Other presidents will come along. They’ve got to clean up the mess and things tighten up. I have seen so many swings of the pendulum from far left to far right in underwriting guidelines. Every time something bad happens, we all get called in. We all get retrained on whatever it is. There have been so many times. Every ten years, something changes and swings back in the other direction.

I like how you tie it to the platforms and that’s a great segue. Coming out of the ’90s, we had Clinton. In my opinion, not to get political, Clinton wasn’t a Democrat, in my mind. He was on the Democratic Party. He was certainly to the left side but business-wise, I never considered him a Democrat. However, everyone gets a piece of the American dream.

He was the first one. Back then too, it was like, “Those lenders are discriminating.” We all got called in and had to go through discrimination training again.

We went through that. It took me eight years to go through college. I’m no dummy. I was coming out of that when the dot-com boom hit. With my first sales job, it didn’t last long. It was horrible. I was selling window tint. They put me in these brand-new neighborhoods with these huge houses. Everybody was a seed investor for whatever dot-com. It was crazy, the housing market and then it dried up. We get eight years of Bush. Bush was more Democrat than he was Republican in that sense because it was bubbling and the gates opened. Can you fog a mirror?

I remember those times. We were busy as could be. It didn’t matter how much money you made. Just write down a number.

When everybody is highly leveraged, then you're toast if one small thing goes wrong. Click To Tweet

Freddie and Fannie bought this. They allowed this. We should back up and explain that a little bit. When you sell a loan or a loan is underwritten, it is done in conformance with the Freddie and Fannie guidelines so that the loan can then be sold to another lender. For some reason, Wells Fargo keeps buying my mortgages. I try to get away from them but I can’t. That is the standard by which loans are underwritten. What I’m getting at is you’re pulling out some anger in me for Freddie and Fannie for allowing that.

I do that a lot. I’m good at that. Think about my side of mortgage lending. A traditional mortgage lender who’s going to sell our loans to Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac, which is ultimately the government or even our FHA and VA loans. All of those are ultimately sold to the government. On my branch of lending, an underwriter’s sole job is to make sure that we have a loan that we can sell on the secondary market, which ultimately means that this loan is going to be a security on Wall Street. It takes about four months after closing for this note, this paper to be a security on Wall Street. Leading up to the ’08 crisis, it was like, “Everybody gets a loan. Let’s make 125% of your value loan.” We were doing loans where you could buy investment properties like a rental property that was zero down.

You could seriously get an 80% first mortgage, 20% second mortgage and buy rental properties with nothing down. It was crazy. Where is that now? With all of those, there was so much going on because everybody thought, “This bubble will never burst.” That’s what they did on Wall Street. At the time, I had clients who worked for a company where they’re buying securities. They would call me and say, “Jill, what are you selling on the front lines?” They would know that in four months, they’re going to be selling it on Wall Street. They always had the end of what was going on out on the front lines because they’d call me and ask me. They kept going. They kept rolling. Everything rolled and rolled, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, everybody. If you can fog a mirror, if you’ve got a social security number, you can have a lot. “Job? It’s good. Did you get one? We’ll give you a loan. Do you want to buy rental properties? Here you go.”

They were handing out the money and as we all know, you can’t do that forever. Some things got to stop but for the people on Wall Street, there is a problem with 2008. Nobody thought it was going to stop. Everybody thought this was going to go on forever and it doesn’t. It can’t. Nothing can. It’s like our run-up and values. The difference between the crash of 2008 and where we are is that in 2008 leading up to that, everybody was highly leveraged. Everybody owed 100% if not more of the value of their home. As soon as everything crashed and remember the Countrywide Option ARM, “It’s 1% interest rate.” No, it’s not because it was negative amortization. Instead of your loan balance paying down every month, your loan balance went up. That’s sure to implode at some point.

Back then, there wasn’t the same amount of equity in properties. There was little, teeny, tiny equity in properties if any at all. In this world, everybody’s made good decisions. Everybody’s got fixed-rate mortgages and a lot of equity and I think that’s the difference. I don’t see that we’re going to have any kind of bubble burst or crash. Will values level off and maybe come down a little bit? Absolutely. My crystal ball says that will happen in about 18 to 24 months. I’m always happy to get out my crystal ball.

I was talking to one of my dad’s friends’ advisers that work Wall Street stuff. I was equating. I don’t see ’08 coming again. That was a perfect storm. There were ARMs. There was the Wall Street bit, which fueled it. I don’t see a repeat of that or coming. I see your typical Wall Street 10% correction. To knock the party down enough, maybe we need to tighten up a little bit. I’m thinking maybe that 10% somewhere in there. 18 to 24 months, I hope you’re wrong. I hope it’s sooner because I want to put some money to work as an investor. If that happens, it’s good for you and bad for me. Nonetheless, I hope for a shorter time horizon but I don’t think you’re wrong. This one’s going to play out. I don’t think crypto is going to be direct with it but a lot of folks are looking at crypto. They’re going to say, “Real estate, what are you going to do?”

A friend of mine got outbid with four houses. It’s crazy. My niece, they’re buying a house. They’re moving. I was like, “Go sign a two-year lease and sell your house now,” because it’s already worth $100,000 more than they got it on the contract for when it was being built. Pocket that $100,000. When somebody messes up, you slide that into that REO, get that foreclosure, and then you can get it priced right. I’m the old uncle, so that’s not fun and cool. They’ve been renting since they got married years ago. I told her that and she’s like, “I want my own place.” I’m like, “That’s what you could do but if you want my advice, I’d sell the damn thing.” We don’t have the ARMs like we used to. Is that even a product for sale? Do you still sell it?

PLP 129 | Market Cycles

Market Cycles: It’s not going to be a hard market crash where everybody falls on their face because there’s a lot of equity in homes today.


It’s starting to make a comeback. They’re different than they once were. I haven’t done an ARM, an Adjustable-Rate Mortgage, product in years probably since ’08, ’09, 2010. They’re coming back. They are starting to pop up. I’ve heard some other lenders starting to quote them. It used to be like, “Your rate is fixed for five years.” Beginning in year six, it’s going to adjust once a year. They’re taking that down to now. It’s going to adjust every six months as opposed to every twelve months. I found that interesting.

The fact that they’re coming back, I’m no Nostradamus but come on. History repeats itself.

Here’s the thing about an ARM versus fixed. The fixed rates are still so low. We are so spoiled with interest rates. I had somebody be like, “My rate is 3.5. That’s so high.” No, it’s not. Eighteen, that’s high. Ten percent, that’s high.

It was in 1983, I believe it was. They built a subdivision behind me. It seemed like, within one weekend, the foreclosure notices went up. These people bought homes with 14% and 15% brand new homes. I’m glad you brought that up because that’s one of my questions towards the end. We’re over a decade of artificially low-interest rates. They’ve been kept. With simple supply and demand, at some point, they’ve got to snap back. Even with the Fed with this “inflation” which I don’t know how you throw trillions of dollars into the market and not expel inflation. Back to the point of rates, let me ask you this. Do you fear rates increasing any?

Not at all. Here’s my crystal ball on interest rates. I think that we’re going to have another good two years of lovely rates in the range that we are. We’ve already hit bottom but I will say this. Interest rates are a quarter lower than they were years ago. Rates are still super good. Inflation is bad for rates and nobody likes that. I think that Fed is going to keep things under control. They watch inflation very closely. There’s an inflation report coming out. The other thing that goes hand in hand with interest rates that a lot of people maybe don’t realize is the amount of debt.

Every time that they’re throwing another trillion dollars out and handing it out to consumers, it increases that debt and that helps to keep our rates low. There’s a whole chart about it. I’ve got this chart and I did a video on it. It shows over the course of 40 or 50 years the amount of debt that the country has versus where interest rates are. I love geeky mortgage history. It’s interesting to see. The more that this country stays in debt, it’s going to keep our rates low.

Would you mind sharing that graph?

I don’t mind at all. I can give it to you. It’s on my little chart on one of the pages. The chart came from Barry Habib with MBS Highway. I’ve known him forever. I subscribed to his services. He did the chart that showed that. I took it one more level. I wanted to know who was president then. It’s interesting because you brought up 1983. A lot of people don’t remember. In 1980, 1981, we had the gas crisis. Does anybody but me remember having to stand in line to fuel up your car? I was telling this story at a dinner party. We hang out amazingly with a lot of younger people. There was a young couple there in their 30s. I was telling them this story and I remember my license plate number. It was SQT504. I was an even and back then, we didn’t have self-service. That had not been invented yet. It was a full-service station. It was my day and I was twenty. I was broke. I had $2.72 cents to my name. That was the only cash I had.

If more builders are building affordably, it might change the whole dynamics of today's housing shortage. Click To Tweet

You sit in line. You wait around the corner. I drove by there when I was in Dallas because it was right by where I used to live. It’s like, “That’s where I used to sit in line for fuel.” You sit in line. I got up there. I said to the attendant, “I’ve got $2.72. Give me that. I’ll give you all my money.” He starts the pump and then he goes to help the person behind me. I’m sitting there in my car. I’m watching it. It’s going to $1, $2, $2.50 then it starts to go over $3. I’m like, “Hold, sir. Come back.” I got free fuel. That was a big deal. I was like, “I told you I only got $2.72.” Sitting in line that gas crisis was huge back then. Do you remember who president was?

It’s Carter and then Reagan.

If you look at my chart, it will show. When Jimmy Carter was president, we didn’t have a lot of debt but we had super high-interest rates and big inflation. When Reagan came along, remember Reagan’s big deal in addition to the Reaganomics and the trickle-down policies, Reagan beefed up the military. He spent billions or trillions or whatever the numbers were. Our country went into debt and the interest rates came down. It was pretty cool and geeky.

I remember the day he got shot. I was very young. I remember walking to a little park at the end of the street. It was weird. My dad always talked about Kennedy being assassinated. My dad was a big fan of Reagan. He laughed at Reagan getting shot. I was like, “I didn’t understand why.” He said, “He even got shot with a .22.” It can be lethal. I felt the same way on 9/11 when they attacked us, so to speak. I remember my dad yelling about Carter more than I remember Carter. From what I can tell, Jimmy Carter was probably the most decent human being that we’ve had as president in years. He just wasn’t the most effective in the office, unfortunately. I remember the gas lines. The interest rates were insane. People complain about 3.5%. I got 4% and 8% on my house here. I was like, “I don’t care. Lock it in. I’m not going to roll any more dice.”

Do you need me to refinance you?

I can’t because I don’t have a W-2 anymore. I’ve got to wait another year. I’ve already tried. The divorce decree is making me refinance the house. I was like, “I probably should have done that before I left the corporate world, W-2, and went off doing my thing.” I have an agreement with the ex. “What do you need until I can refinance this? I’ll give you some hush money. Take the kids until I can get you a two years tax returns and all that fun stuff. I’m in no rush.” I don’t think interest rates are going to go anywhere dramatically. They might pop up and down. I always joke. I may not have married the right woman but I divorced the right one because the relationship’s great. She lives around the corner from me. There’s still interaction. It’s the mother of my kids. I’m not going to turn my back on her. I did tell her, “I can’t refi. Take me to the judge or whatever but I’m telling you, I can’t refi. Nobody in their right mind would refi.”

I tried. I called some doorknockers, “Can you refinance me in two years of W-2, a 10/40?” They’re like, “We don’t have it.” I went down that road about the refi. I do need to refi actually. The correlation that you shared between the debt and the interest rates and then you lay it over with the presidents. That’s going to be a nice touch. Since Carter, I don’t think we’ve seen in flight. We’ve had our spikes and our scares certainly but it wasn’t prolonged as that period of the late ‘70s into the early ‘80s. That’s a cool correlation. That’s good to know, especially from a private lending perspective. What about the late ‘80s with the savings and loan crisis?

PLP 129 | Market Cycles

Market Cycles: The many swings of the pendulum from far left to far right in underwriting guidelines have a lot to do with the president at the time.


That was so much fun. I used to have a t-shirt. The name of our company that I worked for at the time got changed so many times that we had a t-shirt that had the first name and a big X through it, the next name, and another X through it. It got down to where we had five names. The S&L crisis was interesting. I was very young in the industry at that point in time. I remember the RTC, the Resolution Trust Corporation that was formed by the government, if I recall correctly, to bail out the savings and loans. Everybody went. Didn’t that also happen as a result of the oil crisis?

I haven’t researched this or fact-check this on Facebook, so please bear with us here. The savings and loan, the banking systems, they were highly leveraged to oil and the price of a barrel. When it drops, then credit facilities dry up. My dad was a chemist in the upstream oil field. I did insurance adjusting in the upstream. I worked on the rigs. It boggles my mind. History repeats itself time and time again in the oil field. People think that $100 oil is going to stick around forever. They think the party’s never going. To your point in Wall Street in ’08, they think the party’s never going to end and then it does. It’s not like you’re missing one musical chair. You’re missing all the chairs and there’s no more music if you’ve got to pick up the pieces. Banks will lose money. Take it on the chin. Credit facilities dry up and shrink. People get irrational exuberance. They go by the F350 pickup truck when all they need is a little four-cylinder S10.

With all of the crashes that I’ve seen, the common thread is the word leverage. When everybody is highly leveraged, if one small thing goes wrong, then you’re toast. That’s why I think that where we are is going to be different. It’s not going to be a hard crash where everybody falls on their face because there’s a lot of equity in homes. I think the Fed has learned from so many mistakes of the past. I have a lot of confidence in our Federal Reserve System that they’re going to do the right thing for the government and for the consumer especially. They will keep inflation in check and when they dole out this money, what is the new one, $3,600 per child? Did you hear that new story?

My therapist said I shouldn’t watch the news. I turned on little CNBC or Bloomberg from time to time but I did not hear about it. I understand there’s a new tax credit. I didn’t know it was going to be payment but I understand there’s child care.

I heard it in my daily market updates that I get that when the government doles out free money. In 2020, look at all the companies who got the free PPP money. If the government’s going to hand out free money, you’ve got to say yes to that. What happens when they dish these payments out to the consumer, it’s an immediate go out and spend. It’s immediate gratification and spending of the money. You go out and you buy a new car. The new car is great. The dealer made money. The salesman made money. The insurance guy made a little bit more money. Everybody made a little bit of money because I bought a new car but then they spend the money and then here’s this, “We don’t have any money anymore.” The person who bought the car is like, “I’ve got a car payment.” That’s $300 to $800 a month that’s non-expendable income anymore.

All of those things need to be factored into all of this free money that the Fed is dishing out. I don’t know if they do but it’s interesting. We’ll see what happens. There’s something I heard on my market update. Don’t quote me. Google it yourself because I don’t have kids, so I’m not getting any money. My daughter’s grown. My stepsons are all grown. I’m not getting any. It has to do with payments each month. It depends upon how old the kid is and they’re going to start the payments in July 2021. It’s $300 a month starting in July 2021. At April 2022, you get a lump sum for the rest of it. That’s a lot of money. We’ll see how that plays out. That’s all we can do on these free money situations. We got to ride it out and see how it plays out.

COVID did not affect me because I was already working from home. My kids didn’t go back to school after spring break. I love them dearly but they had a choice. When the fall of 2020 came around, the district here said you could do it in a virtual or in person. My kids are like, “Virtual.” I’m like, “No. You’re getting out of my house and you’re going to school.” We got the joint checking account. We got our stimulus check. She was laid off because of COVID very early on. I didn’t have any issues with the extra unemployment that was given because of this pandemic. What I didn’t like is immediately she said, “You normally have to apply and look for work if you’re taking unemployment.” The government was like, “You don’t have to do that.” I’m like, “That’s a great idea.” We got that stimulus. I said, “Do we donate it or whatever?”

Lo and behold, it was time for the orthodontist. We agree on where that money should go. To your point, that was a luxury. It was not a necessity. It didn’t go to pay my rent. A one-time pop of $1,400 over six months is not going to change anybody’s life. I don’t understand the reasoning behind it. You take that same $1,400. You give a little bit to the bank that has the mortgage and tells the landlord he doesn’t have to pay his mortgage for six months. “Mrs. Tenant, because your landlord doesn’t have to pay, you don’t have to pay rent for the next six months. That’s all going to be covered.” It was going to be made whole. Everybody gets a little in the chain rather than giving the tenant $1,400 and then everyone else up the chain still gets screwed. Nobody asked me how I put it together but that’s what I thought when I had too many beers on whiskey one night.

If the government is handing out free money, it results in an immediate go out and spend. Click To Tweet

What I would like to see the government do because the problem that we have in housing is a shortage of houses, lumber went up, the price of houses went up. There are a lot of builders who won’t even price out a house because they don’t know how much it’s going to cost them to build it. It’s crazy. Why doesn’t the government give some money to the builders of the world so that they can build houses at a cheaper price point so that we have more product to then sell to the buyers? If we had more builders building affordably, it might change the whole dynamics of this housing shortage that we have. Somebody run that up the flagpole to the Feds. I tell people all the time. When I rule the mortgage world, I will change it all, so vote for Jill. I’m going to wave my magic wand and everything is going to be wonderful again.

We’ve cured the ills of the American economy and what the government’s doing with it. Do you think we’re going to see a little bump in a few months, a little cooling down of the economy? It’s interesting. I’m seeing memes on Facebook and social media where it used to be photos of pallets of cocaine and now it’s lumber, 2x4s, and 2X6s in plywood. There were $1.2 billion confiscated at the border. It is insane. We’re in alignment with that. It got us through with the savings and loan. Mr. Bush’s children had savings and loans. They were built out. They were in Colorado. Do the research. Mr. Zuckerberg is going to let that one in. I want you to get your plugin, so people want to contact and want to get a mortgage through you. How do they find out how you can help them make good decisions?

An easy way to find me is at, which is my little website. My cell number is on there. I also have a Facebook page. I believe my Facebook page is Jill Underwood. My LinkedIn profile is at Jill Underwood. Those are the best places to find me. I’m pretty sure that I’ve got a pretty good SEO out there. If you Google Jill Mortgage Queen, I’m pretty sure you’re going to find me.

Thank you for coming to the show. Thank you for sharing your knowledge in the mortgage industry. Thank you for curing the ills of the economy with me. Is there any parting wisdom you want to leave us with? It can be anything.

I think it’s important that as a consumer to make good choices. Look at your options and make a good choice that’s going to last. Make sure that you are seeking help from a true advisor and not just somebody that’s random off the internet. You need a good referral to a true advisor who does have your best interests at heart.

I’m not going to name names but there was a certain seller for a home builder that told a friend of mine that you can totally quit your job before you purchase the house. No big deal. Get that extra credit card while you’re at it. Thank you so much for coming on. I do appreciate it. I wish you sleep for the next years because I think you’re going to need it once the house gets leveled out. As long as we have these artificially low rates, they can put the supply back there. There’s the refi aspect of it when things shift. I wish you sleep and rest.

Thank you. I am very big on getting my rest. I’m good at being balanced in life, believe it or not. Thank you so much for inviting me to come to your show.

It’s my pleasure.

PLP 129 | Market Cycles

Market Cycles: Rates are still super good. Inflation is bad for rates, and nobody likes that.


I feel very honored to do so.

Thank you. You’ve honored me by being here and talking. The pleasure is all mine. Take care.

Have a great day there.

There you have it. I’d like to thank Jill Underwood for stopping by, discussing her experience through several market cycles and what was different in each one. For the image of the graph that she mentioned, it’s a very interesting little tidbit. I did not realize that Carter had very little debt when inflation was out of control. I’m not drawing any conclusions but I find it very interesting. That is one of the reasons why I wanted to bring Jill on the show so you could hear about it. I wasn’t in the business but I do remember in the ’80s watching my dad go without a job. Strip centers and houses had been foreclosed upon and for lease.

That’s going to do it for this episode. I don’t charge money for the show but there is a cost to produce it. I would be extremely grateful if you could help get the word out and increase awareness for the show by leaving me an honest rating and review over at Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, or whatever platform you’re using to hear my voice. It would mean the world to me if you could take the time and leave an honest rating and review over at iTunes. It’s still a 400-pound gorilla in the room and the one that shifts its weight around. Reviews on iTunes do go a long way to help. That will generate the most buzz for the show.

It will also help you erase a lot of negative karma, trust me. No guarantees or promises. Don’t forget to join the show’s Facebook group. Search in groups for the Private Lender Podcast and don’t forget the Private Lender Academy will be dropping in or launching in July of 2021. Go over to for more information. That’s going to do it. Thank you for reading. Thank you for your time. In addition to mindfulness and self-awareness, I wish you safe and successful private lending. I’ll catch you on the next episode.

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About Jill Underwood

PLP 129 | Market CyclesWith the influence of my Mother, a top-producing Realtor, I began my career in mortgage banking when I was 21 years old. I was hired as a receptionist, then quickly rose the ranks to a Loan Officer. I have originated mortgage loans all around the US.

I have helped first-time home buyers, who later bought their second and third homes. I have helped my clients purchase rental homes and vacation homes. I have helped couples sell their big family home and downsize into a smaller home.

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About the author, Keith Baker

My ultimate goal is to create an economy for Real Estate (and other) Investors where banks are no longer needed. An economy where every day people look to each other for leverage and support. During the day I am an insurance adjuster for the oil field, where I handle millions of dollars of other people's money (OPM), and by night I invest in Real Estate and host this podcast. I hope you have an excellent experience and find real value within this website and the Private Lender Podcast. Please leave comments or submit your questions on the Contact Page.

I wish you prosperous, safe and happy lending and investing!

Thanks for listening


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